You are now dead.

Discussion in 'Hard Gay Shitpost Metropolis' started by Evilea, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Evilea

    Evilea
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    Lulz Dancer

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    But thankfully, your consciousness has been saved onto a flash drive. It can now be downloaded into whatever robot/computer system you want.
    So what kind of super-cool robot/computer system do you want to have for your new body, HGC?
     
  2. Lundy

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    I would want to be Walter the Wobot.
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  3. Ronny

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  4. Semjaaza

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  5. Sugar Bombs

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    [​IMG]

    [Fisto reporting for duty.]
     
  6. Seku

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  7. uberfukken

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  8. Knots

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    Consciousness doesn't get transferred to a flash drive. If you die and someone makes a perfect copy of your mind, that still isn't you.

    I'd love to have a sweet ass robot body but not without my pathetic human brain somewhere inside of it.
     
  9. $$Trooper

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  10. Bottom Feeder

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  11. CallMeMaggot

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    or maybe this, if I'm in a bitchy mood...

    [​IMG]

    Can u be gayer?

    That's a very muddy philosophical subject

    I used to think so, but now I'm not sure. I have come to the belief that we are the very process, not the hardware, nor the continuity of such process.

    Mental experiment: Everytime that Cap. Kirk teleports to a planet's surface...did he die?

    And thus: Do we die everytime we lose consciousness?
     
  12. Knots

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    A teleporter like the one in Star Trek murders you, yes.

    I think the fact that we live through losing consciousness is actually an argument for the idea that we are "the hardware".

    It's hard to know for sure, anyway, and I am not about to risk it.
     
  13. oddguy

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  14. CallMeMaggot

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    But how the copy knows he is a copy?

    Maybe we "die" every night, just that "we" don't realize when waking up that we are another (albeit identical) person

    [​IMG]

    Maybe you will die tonight and you don't even know

    That though used to annoy me

    Muuuuddddyyyy

    :D

    Can be an auto-Turing test (short of...) be applied here?

    ***************

    And if the teleporting machine doesn't destroy the original...could we say that the "teleported" is in some way "lesser" than the original?

    All this shit depends upon the concepts of consciousness, ego, identity, etc...and the problem is, we haven't good definitions about any of those
     
  15. HeliosOne

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  16. Sugar Bombs

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    Reloading checkpoints :D
     
  17. Knots

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    There is no singular "consciousness". Our tendency to define ourselves as a "central being" probably developed as an artifact of the necessity to treat others as "central beings" in complex group teamwork; most other animals are not aware of the self in the way that we are and besides us, no other animals have ideas as to what other animals might be experiencing.

    Just as the pixels of a screen can express themselves as a recognizable image when in unity, the convergence of neural interaction expresses itself as consciousness. We are the sum of all neurons firing at a given point in time and nothing more. There is no soul, consciousness and being are not separate entities to the configuration of our neurons.

    tl;dr On the scale of the human body, the "self" is the brain, on the scale of the brain, there is no "self", no central originating point of consciousness.
     
  18. Sugar Bombs

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    teal deer
     
  19. CallMeMaggot

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    I agree, and that's precisely my point.

    If "we" are a configuration of signals...a perfect copy of that configuration surely must be "us" too, even if that configuration is dynamic.

    The first microsecond after a replication will be two of me. Then, as the sensorial imput varies in the slightless, we will start to diverge.

    This is kinda of an ontological question: Can two identical things be different?
     
  20. Knots

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    The tl:dr is now labeled and I want to die.
     
  21. Sugar Bombs

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    My work here is done.
    EXCELSIOR!
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  22. Knots

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    Not just signals, the flesh of the neurons themselves are responsible for the self. A copy of the flesh, the cell-stuff, would be at the instant of creation an exact replica of self but because the matter making the copy up is different, it is not self.
     
  23. CallMeMaggot

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    With that, I totally disagree.

    The medium is irrelevant, same as COD is COD in two different PCs

    It's my belief that if somehow my neurons were magically and instantly turned into a series of organic transistors (or whatever) with the same interconecting paths and response times etc, I would not notice it, and more importantly, I would still be "me"

    Obviously, nobody could tell the difference without opening my skull

    Again, Turing test springs to mind
     
  24. Knots

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    The turing test involves whether or not there is a way to distinguish artificial intelligence from a biological intelligence. It has nothing to do with whether or not an already existing consciousness can be moved from biological "hardware" to synthetic "hardware".

    The fact that no one could tell the difference doesn't to me mean you qualify as yourself although for other people you would easily.

    I think for you to be right, new laws of physics would have to be discovered that pertain to consciousness being separate from the matter that creates it in some way.
     
  25. CallMeMaggot

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    That's why I said "short of"

    Here, it will be an auto-pseudo-Turing test inwhich you try to differentiate yourself from a perfect copy of...well, yourself

    ********************

    But if you can't tell, then what?

    *************************

    Not a separated propertie, but an emergent one

    Again with the same example:

    If you are playing COD in a monitor attached to a black box, looking at the action in the screen there's no way you can tell if inside that black box there is an Intel processor, or a bunch of metamphetaminic Smurfs on wheels exchanging notes on paper and then feeding somehow with that info a graphical card

    Same with your brain (hardware) and conciousness (software)
     
  26. Baya Rae 4900

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  27. Knots

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    A. If I am there to differentiate then I already know which is me. Even if I am not the original, I know I am -me- even if my origins are uncertain. I know the copy does not see the world through my unique point of view as he occupies a different place in space.

    B. ^

    C. You are saying things again that appear to me to support my conclusions; consciousness is an emergent property of the matter that creates it. The difference here is that while you say "COD is still COD regardless of the hardware that runs it", I am saying that COD cannot be separated from the hardware that runs it and even in terms of computing, I would be right; my copy of COD exists as a different set of atoms in reality than your copy of COD even though in terms of interactive characteristics, they are identical.

    Part of what makes you "you" is the atoms that make up your neurons and their position in space relative to each other.
     
  28. CallMeMaggot

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    Not if you teleport from a white room to another white room

    Neither of you could tell the difference, nor who was the original.

    *******************

    I'm not talking about the DVDs, I'm talking about the experience. Or the info bytes, as you want.

    Obviously, two different DVDs are different DVDs...but the process is the same, and it doesn't depend of the hardware.

    COD (to run) doesn't demand a certain kind of chip technology, it demands a certain kinf of logical architecture.

    Just that. Speed Smurf can provide that architecture, and thus, produce a nice game of COD
     
  29. Knots

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    Speed Smurf doesn't provide a copy of COD. Speed Smurf IS that copy of COD.

    The white room must necessarily occupy different points in space and so therefor my arguements still hold. Your posistion in space alone can make you unique.
     
  30. CallMeMaggot

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    Girlvinyl

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    IS your Intel processor (or whatever) your copy of COD?

    I doubt it.

    **************

    Your position in space for whom?

    For you? You don't know what's ur position in space, you are in a white room

    For God?

    Lol