"Trolling" accusations as a means of deflecting criticism

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by tyciol, Dec 29, 2011.

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  1. tyciol

    tyciol
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    pedophile

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    Frequently, name-calling other users as a 'troll' is used as a means of ad hominem argument to ignore the content of what they are actually saying. The content (and editorship) of Encyclopedia Dramatica is a major victim of this.

    Frequently the seriousness and truth contained in articles critical of organizations such as Wikipedia are dismissed simply because the text is present on ED, ignoring whether or not the text is actually true.

    Those who believe this is a valid means of assessing information should read:
    Accusations that presume knowledge of motives
    Fix content, not perceived motives
    Keep criticism narrow
    Defining 'troll'

    One major factor of ED is, in spite of the humour and the tolerated presence of untruths for the purpose of comedy, it is a place that the truth can also exist. Its liberal nature is why it is more open to conveying things which would otherwise be censored on any Wikimedia site, or even critic sites such as the Wikipedia Review, both of which will ban users they don't want associated with them.

    Any who would simply accuse someone as trolling as a means of dismissing them are intellectually lazy, and can't come up with a valid means of criticizing others' behaviours. This unfortunately includes fellows like Gmax who levied that accusation against me.

    The main problem with trolling is that it's so incredibly vague that you can apply it to anybody. "Fishing for a reaction": is communication itself not ALWAYs this?

    The reason people say things to one another is because we care about what other people think, and what they have to say about what we express to them. In this way, anyone who has ever talked to anyone else can be labelled a 'troll'. As if to imply that everyone else who expresses themself is not doing so in expectations of reaction to their words.

    Some add the additional stipulation to trolling that someone is 'indenting to disrupt', or possibly that they are misrepresenting themselves as someone they are not. For example, going to a jewish forum and insulting jewish people to disrupt their community, or doing so even though you actually like jews and simply want entertainment at their reactions.

    These 2 additional criteria points are good in terms of giving 'trolling' an actual useful and specific definition. But they err in that they are at best hypothetical things, stuff that people guess at. Both of them rely on knowing what the actual motivations and beliefs of someone are.

    In that sense, to define someone by this more exclusive definition of troll, you must be a telepath. That, or you're just fucking guessing. Yet much of the time, people may assume you're lying about your beliefs, or lying about your motivations, when in fact you are not. People misjudge one another's minds and intents ALL THE TIME.

    In the end, it's a matter of heresay, and prone to extensive misuse. This is why responsible people do not waste their time with guessing-shit like that, and instead they analyze behaviour, and respond to that, because behaviour is something that has evidence.

    I post this in expectation that people will dismiss the 'Revue' simply as 'trolling'. It is most certainly to get a reaction, yes, just like any newspaper would be. Just like any 'Review' would be. But it is not here to be dishonest, it is here to provide valid feedback, truthful analysis.

    As far as intending to disrupt: well, I personally love the Wikimedia projects, and contributed cooperatively and constructively to them for half a decade during my 2005-2010 period as an editor. Unfortunately for me, I paid more attention to improving articles than I did to WikiPolitics, and didn't pursue things which might have saved me like Adminship.

    My intent is not to disrupt or damage the projects, but rather to improve them. My experiences have taught me that there are corrupt members consolidating power in these communities who are abusing their powers and not attempting to abide by any policy. I believe that when these people are made accountable for their actions and under closer scrutiny (and perhaps more responsible people elected to supplement or replace them) that this will be better for the community and the truthfulness of information in the long-term.

    So in short: no, this isn't trolling. Trolling is boring, and it's not as challenging as presenting and confronting real atrocities truthfully.
     
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  2. ExplosiveDiareah

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    Girlvinyl

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    Don't forget a "Troll" is forumspeak for a new member who knows it all, and that enrages the senior no lifers because they hate facing the fact that newfags are not all intellectually inept.

    but anyway, yeah, pretty much what you said, it's a way to dismiss valid arguements.
     
  3. Meepsheep

    Meepsheep
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    THEY DON'T PAINT PICTURES, THEY JUST TRACE ME

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    Trolling accusations themselves are blatant disregard of Wikipedia policy (see WP:AGF). However, I have found that WP:JDLI is a perfect card to pull when trolling accusations arise, along with WP:AAGF.
     
  4. tyciol

    tyciol
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    pedophile

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    God damn your familiarity with Wikipedia abbreviations meep. Lemme go look those up...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:I_just_don't_like_it
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_the_assumption_of_good_faith

    What do you mean about the latter two? You can't logically assume the assumption of good faith if people are calling each other trolls. When you start calling each other troll, the good faith is clearly not there.

    This would contradict the terms' usenet origins where oldfags would "troll for newbies", wouldn't it?
     
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  5. Meepsheep

    Meepsheep
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    THEY DON'T PAINT PICTURES, THEY JUST TRACE ME

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    Which is why trolling accusations are a violation of WP policy.

    WP:JDLI has more to do with the motives behind said accusations (see: every GNAA discussion ever)
     
  6. MrGask

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    #FreeGask

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    Hmmm, all that text, and all it says is "whaaaaaaa, someone is using their own website in a way they see fit."
     
  7. molb*

    molb*
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    Presumed knowledge of motive my just be my biggest pet peeve.
     
  8. pockey&hentai

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    Dramacrat

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    > The reason people say things to one another is because we care about what other people think, and what they have to say

    Nope.
     
  9. 1H4T3NUMB3R5

    1H4T3NUMB3R5
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    You bring up a valid point although as pointed out above there are some flaws in your argument. uh.. i mean...um.. you ARE TEH troLLOLOLoLLoLoLLOLOLOLOLOLOoLlooLOLZING FAg
     
  10. h0xnbl0w

    h0xnbl0w
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    tl;dr if you don't like get the fuck out
     
  11. Helix

    Helix
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    resident stoner

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    Boring. Watch this instead.