The problem with Americans and taxes

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Zaichata, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Zaichata

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    "Here in the US, taxes are typically regarded as uncompensated income loss. The idea that they might (also) be a contribution to the provision of collective goods that individuals could never afford in isolation (roads, firemen, policemen, schools, lamp posts, post offices, soldiers, warships, weapons, etc.) is rarely considered."
    - Tony Judt, Ill Fares the Land


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  2. Straucher

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    That, or they might be aware of the purpose of taxes, and simply think that the money would be better spent on themselves.
     
  3. Zaichata

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    Then you'd end up in the first hypothesis as well. All these public goods are spent on themselves.
     
  4. Seku

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    BOOM. No more thread.
     
  5. Straucher

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    But they don't know that, necessarily. Some are convinced that their money will be spent on social programs that won't benefit them.
     
  6. molb*

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    This is a facile argument. First of all, we already have private schools and parcel delivery services (that dramatically outperform what is funded by taxes). Secondly, it ignores any debate over the magnitude of deduction necessary to fund essential and exclusive services. Should a fire chief retire at age 55 with a $250k pension? Should Iraq have an embassy that's bigger than the Vatican? Should my buddy get paid $45/hour to get drunk with me because he's still technically on the clock, overseeing road construction (actually happened during the Big Dig)?
     
  7. Zaichata

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    Good point. However, you like to look at what's at the surface without digging deeper.

    For example, although private schools perform way better than public schools, both private and public schools are outperformed by Western European and Scandinavian schools.

    Furthermore, corruption, as your example suggests, is hardly a problem about the taxes themselves but more about the attitude of the average American.
     
  8. Dr. Rice

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    Private schools "perform better" than public schools because they don't allow niggers into their schools.
     
  9. Seku

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    <-- Is half-nigger.
    <-- Went to private school.
     
  10. Dr. Rice

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    It was mostly a joke, but it is mostly a commentary that private schools are able to manipulate their scores because they can pick and choose who they want in their school. They can keep stupid kids and niggers out of their school because they bring down their whole school's image.
     
  11. uberfukken

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    With the exception of bombs and missiles, Tony Judt lists things which are either handled on a state level or grossly underfunded - roads, public schools, mail, public safety.

    State and county taxes pay for our local needs. We don't need a 30% federal taxrate to cover what is listed above, and not many people have a problem with paying for the above services. However, when most of the federal money is being used for special interests, war, corporate bailouts, and legal waste, that's when we scream FUCK TAXES.
     
  12. Baya Rae 4900

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    American private schools are regulated out the wazoo, which is probably why they're only slightly better than their laughable government cousins. I'd like to point out that statistically debating which type of education is pointless as the best education is the one that accommodates its students and none do that better than home-schooling and tutors. While it statistically shows, said statistics are smudged on account of most employing home-schooling being smarter than the average parent. Schools, both private and public, exist because the vast majority of parents are lazy and/or ignorant.

    Molb mentioned how the private counterparts tend to be more efficient. This isn't because they're privately owned but because they're decentralised and have to compete for profits. Government schools also have per student funding but they can just call police if they're inefficient. Such is the miracle of progressivism.

    [​IMG]

    I thought you were a prole, nigger. I thought you were a prole.

    I guess that effeminate figure and slacker stance should've tipped me off.
     
  13. Zaichata

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    The big disadvantage of home schooling is that a very important asset of going to school, namely social skills and social contact, is being taken away. That's why so many of the kids who got home schooled are sociopathic loners with troubles in their later careers to fit in the group.
     
  14. molb*

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  15. Baya Rae 4900

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    The larger the group that a person is introduced, the more of a chance said person will find and stay with people that they're comfortable around thus rarely, if ever, leaving their comfort zone and becoming increasingly xenophobic and having gradually less tolerance for anybody they're not comfortable around. If you've ever been to a school or have been on the internet then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Checkmate.
     
  16. Zaichata

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    Bullshit.

    Checkmate.
     
  17. Baya Rae 4900

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    Typical socialist. -_-
     
  18. KimmoAlmPhoenix

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    Social activities around homeschooling are easily organized by community efforts. I'm surprised the very large social network for homeschoolers you can easily find with a simple Google search was easily missed.
     
  19. Baya Rae 4900

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    Let's pretend that all private companies only do things for profit. Is it profitable to have no safety measures in place? Is it profitable to have no measures in place to prevent fire or protect person and property from fire? Is it profitable to have roads you constantly use full of potholes and surrounded by bandits? Etc.

    In the event that the massive parasite we call government dies, private companies would pay for these things individually or combine their resources. If nothing else they'll sell stocks and invite investors. The point is that the market takes care of society because the market is society. It's the economic arm of society. And all these government stooges who say that people can't exist without government are just that, stooges.

    People can survive without government just fine. Whether they wish to or not comes down to personal preference. Whether they prefer to or not comes down to whether they're megalomaniacs or not.
     
  20. Helix

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    This is the exact reason why we had two unfunded wars and are now plunged in near insurmountable debt, god Americans can be fucking stupid sometimes. (not that anybody's going to do anything about it though)
     
  21. Baya Rae 4900

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    Are you saying that America can be pillaged enough to satisfy a twenty trillion dollar debt? Hot tip: Most of that debt is taken out of social security and other government run programs where chumps give their hard earned money in order to obtain the promise of long-term security. It's a de facto form of taxation since the US federal government isn't going to pay back that debt because it can't. And then, once the smoke has cleared, it just starts all over again. When you're eating shit to survive, at least you can be happy to know that all your money went to bolster some incompetent and corrupt bureaucrat's salary and benefits.
     
  22. Helix

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    Im saying a big reason that U.S is in debt is because Americans refuse to vote to raise taxes. The entire conflict in Iraq was completely unfunded if I remember correctly, meaning it was the first war in U.S history where we didn't raise taxes somewhat to compensate, and it turned into a huge hole that we just pissed all our money into, and then some.
     
  23. Baya Rae 4900

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    I'm pretty sure expenditure has more to do with deficits than income. Anyway, like I had just written, there simply isn't enough money to pay for America's bullshit. Even if you did raise taxes, even if you raised them all to 100%, there wouldn't be enough. And it'd devastate America's economy to boot. In fact, not raising (overt) taxes was probably the smartest thing Bush did.
     
  24. Helix

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    Oh, I agree with you there. My point was that we were practically in the clear before all of that shit hit the fan. In the 1980's we were in good shape to be out of debt entirely.
     
  25. Baya Rae 4900

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    @Helix I'd also like to point out (again) that the US government is taxing Americans via pillaging government programs like social security and via inflation by printing money and "increasing" digital money. Again, the amount owed to foreign governments is minuscule when compared to the overall debt. The US bureaucrats know what they're doing. They've had over two hundred years to perfect the ruse.
     
  26. MrGask

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    This. Being smarter than everyone around you is usually a disadvantage. Just ask PerpA.
     
  27. GSTalbert1

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    This is in conjunction with taxes corporations apply as mercenary bureaucracies. Rather than taxing individuals they tax communities through their economic transactions. Every dollar spent at a chain store keeps only 13 cents in the community which translates to an 87% and higher tax, of which a sizable portion goes to the government. Corporations don't run the government, congress keeps them on a tight leash; if they didn't they'd lose access to the power and wealth corporate America has accrued.
     
  28. Zaichata

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    Biggest bull shit I've seen all day, and I've had a lovely long walk in meadows filled with bulls today.
     
  29. Baya Rae 4900

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    True. It's much easier to keep track of and control a dozen companies than several hundred or thousand.
     
  30. Slavoj Jizzek

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    This is mostly bullshit as if you've ever been to a Catholic school you will find all of the kids that got kicked out of public school and a couple of dumb fucking parents who think they're sending their kid to a sheltered environment. In public school, we envied the amount of drugs our retarded parochial cousins did. Then again, their shitty high school diplomas didn't get them into decent colleges so there's that.

    That said, I have a cousin who spent a month of her homeschooling going to New York to present some bullshit model buildings she made out of bubble wrap. If you think that's somehow justifiable, fine. I don't see how her dipshit siblings who went along for the ride should be able to write that off for an education.

    I hate public schools. Private schools where parents pool resources to invest them in educations they choose for their kids are the only real option. I managed to get an education in a public school because I gave a shit, something most kids in public schools do not and are not encouraged, rewarded, or even needed to do. For home schooling, you also have to take into account people on average aren't the brightest. Voluntarily pooling resources to higher brighter people to teach your kid shit you wouldn't have thought of has its benefits.

    Private schools would be a lot better if they didn't have to compete with a shitty system with infinite funding complements of us enforced by a lobby with some of the deepest pockets (also paid for by you via salaries of teachers) in the conceivability of deep pockets.