Surprise, surprise

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by molb*, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. molb*

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  2. Dr. Rice

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    How is Gaza not like a concentration camp? Are they really that stupid? Do they realize that history will not remember Israel in a positive light?
     
  3. Baya Rae 4900

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    Americans are digging their own graves.
     
  4. molb*

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    Not even the Jews themselves are united in wanting America to fight their wars for them. Are those dissenting voices extreme? Anti-Semetic?!?
     
  5. Seku

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  6. oddguy

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    i'm sorry... have you been to gaza,or are you talking out of your ass as usual ?
     
  7. Dr. Rice

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    It is a 449,221 people living in an area that is 17.4 square miles. People are not allowed to leave without Israeli permission. Three generations have lived and died in refugee like conditions. Israel is blockading Gaza in order to stop weapons smuggling. However, weapons are still getting in, but basic medical supplies are not. When the PLO tried to get recognized as a sovereign state in the UN, what did Israel do? It freezed all PLO assets (like government salaries and bank accounts, which stopped the economy) until the PLO withdrew its admission to UN organizations. In fact, Turkey has cut all ties with your country because your Prime Minister REFUSED to appoligize for killing nine Turkish citizens when they tried bringing medical supplies to Gaza.

    Your army continues to sabotage boats that are trying to bring relief aid to Gaza and your country puts economic pressure on any country that tries to say otherwise about your illegal blockade. Your government levels Bedu villages in the north, citing they are illegal. This is very funny because the majority of the world KNOWS your settlement program is illegal, but no one has used missile strikes to blow up the settlements like you have done to those camel herders. In Israel, in order to find employment, you have to have spent time in the military. People not of Jewish descent are not allowed to join the army, thus depriving all non-Jews of good work.

    What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is nothing short of Apartheid and the only difference between your nation and the Nazis is you aren't gassing people in showers yet. The world is not stupid of the realities of what is happening in your country so stop pretending we are making shit up.
     
  8. oddguy

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    i'm sorry for any grammar or spelling errors i may have.
    i'm at work so fuck it.

    It is a 449,221 people living in an area that is 17.4 square miles. People are not allowed to leave without Israeli permission. Three generations have lived and died in refugee like conditions.

    1. They can leave whenever they want as long as they go thru an inspection to insure they are not sumggling weapons. Just like any border inspection anywhere.
    In isreal these truly are more stringent,But only becauase they are constantly trying to smuggle weapons.

    2.Three generations have lived and died there because they refuse to sing a peace treaty. Despite having been offered essentially everything they claim to want several times. in fact,in 2004 olmert actually offered abu mazen a full return to the green line borders,with a right of return and making jerusalem an international territory governd by representatives from both countries.
    abu mazen told him to shove off.

    Israel is blockading Gaza in order to stop weapons smuggling. However, weapons are still getting in

    You make a strong argument in their defense.

    but basic medical supplies are not.

    Not even remotly true.

    When the PLO tried to get recognized as a sovereign state in the UN, what did Israel do? It freezed all PLO assets (like government salaries and bank accounts, which stopped the economy) until the PLO withdrew its admission to UN organizations. In fact

    They want to be recognized as a state yet they still refuse to recognize us as a one. If they want to be recognized as a state they need to first recognize us and then make a peace treaty with us. What they can't do is go to the U.N all the while still claiming they intend to wipe us off the map.

    Turkey has cut all ties with your country because your Prime Minister REFUSED to appoligize for killing nine Turkish citizens when they tried bringing medical supplies to Gaza.

    The story starts a bit earlier then that... ill just give you a play by play.

    1.Tury makes a TV show about how all israely soldiers are murderers. Refuses to apologize
    2.Israely foring affaires minister Eivet Libermen retaliates by publicly embarrasing the turkish ambassador. (You won't see me defending that move,everyone here thought that was retarded on his part.)
    3.Turky kicks israely ambassador out of Turky and calls their own back home.
    4.Turky sponsors the flotilla to spite us.

    All of this was done mostly due to arduans upcoming election (upcomic at the time) and his desire to turn Turky orthodox muslim and draw attention away from Turkys collapsing economy.

    Also,he did not ask us to apologize for the nine dead,but rather to apologize AND simultaneously recognize gaza as an indipentid state. This was done not due to concern for the palastinian people but rather to find cause to prepetuate the beef with us by giving us a demand he knew we could not comply with.

    About the flotilla. There is no shortage of medical supplies in gaza,nor is there a problem in donating them. There is something called "The territories officer of communication" (loosly translated) by contacting him you can easliy send whatever you want to gaza.
    Instead of doing that Turky opted to breach israels military blockade to antagonize us.

    btw,after the flotilla israel offered to deliver the goods to gaza anyway.
    Hamas refused.


    Your army continues to sabotage boats that are trying to bring relief aid to Gaza and your country puts economic pressure on any country that tries to say otherwise about your illegal blockade.

    1. sabotage- speculation,not fact.
    2.Gaza get plenty of relief. They receive donation from the U.S the U.S and israel itself. in fact,in 2009 israel sent over 900 tons worth of humanitarian support to gaza. There is no shortege of anything in the gaza strip and any poverty there is caused by their own inability to manage the ridicules amounts of funds they are donated every year.
    3.What economic pressure ? who the hell is in a position that he can be threatened by israel economically ?
    4.the blockade is legal.

    Your government levels Bedu villages in the north, citing they are illegal. This is very funny because the majority of the world KNOWS your settlement program is illegal, but no one has used missile strikes to blow up the settlements like you have done to those camel herders.

    You mean like we DIDN'T forcefully evacuate jews out of the gaza strip in 2005 ?
    You should have seen that shit. tear gas and bulldozers up the ass.

    Anyway,you are mixing two different terms of "illegal" here. The beduin towns were illegal by regular law. The israely ones are (arguably) illegal by international law. Israel had every right to kick those people out like any country does with its poachers. The status of the israely settlements is up for debate.

    In Israel, in order to find employment, you have to have spent time in the military. People not of Jewish descent are not allowed to join the army, thus depriving all non-Jews of good work.

    I have nothing to refute here because it isn't true. it's a blatant lie you either made up or heard from some who made it up. as someone who lives in israel i can tell you that that is straight up bullshit.


    What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is nothing short of Apartheid and the only difference between your nation and the Nazis is you aren't gassing people in showers yet.

    o rly ?
    i think i found a nother difference or two.
    1. we are not trying to kill them.
    2.they have food.
    3.they have clothes.
    4.they have jobs.
    5.they have homes.

    in fact... the more i think about it... it seems like gaza is not like a concentration camp AT ALL ! wow... whoda thunk it ?
    I love how the age old claim of: "that's just like the holocaust !" "you are just like hitler !" and "That's like a concentration camp !" always fall apart when you ask a simple question... "in what way ?"

    You either know nothing about the holocaust or you know nothing about gaza.
    my guess ? both.

    The world is not stupid of the realities of what is happening in your country so stop pretending we are making shit up.

    i don't know if the world is stupid,but you clearly are.
    You are little more then a hack kneed demagouge. All your information about the israely/palastinian situation comes from a couple of poorly written documents that have been copy pasted and passed around the internet ad infinitum and can easliy be refuted by anyone who actually knows anything.

    i lived in israel all my life,iv been in the army and i have read multiple books on the issue.
    i will not be lectured to by someone who gets his information from web blogs.

    also,you skillfully avoided my original question.

    HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO GAZA,MOTHERFUCKER ?
    and if not,how the fuck do you know what gaza is like ?
     
  9. Dr. Rice

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    All you spew about this conflict is garbage. I do support an independent and safe state of Israel, I really do, just not what is happening with the zionist state. And I know what you say is slanted garbage and I know this because I am not ill informed on this conflict.

    I remember when Bush and Israel wanted fair elections and you know who won? Hamas won. After the group that refuses to get fucked over by their oppressors got fairly elected, your government and our Neo-cons in power had a shit fit because democracy DIDN'T work in their favor. So stop with your bullshit propaganda and admit you are just the latest brand of neo-fascists.

    BTW here is some quotes from famous Israelis:

    ---"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
    Israeli Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

    ---"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle."
    Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

    ---"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."
    Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

    ---"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it."
    - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

    ---"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."
    Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

    ---"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, what is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'"
    Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
     
  10. Dr. Rice

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  11. Dr. Rice

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    The rest of the world knows what your country is up to and no one likes it one bit. The only people who aren't aware of the realities are the American masses and the Israelis themselves
     
  12. Dr. Rice

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  13. Baya Rae 4900

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    Do Americans deserve Ron Paul, though? Most Americans are too busy trying to use the government to enforce their bullshit beliefs on others and too busy using the government to subsidise themselves to care about America's future. Frankly speaking, I don't think they deserve Ron Paul.
     
  14. oddguy

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    hummm... it's doesn't seem like you refuted any of my point. You just labeled them "garbage" and moved on...
    o.k,let's continue.

    About the hamas being elected, May i remind you... or perhaps inform you because you obviously don't know shit, That hamas was elected on a financial platform. Most of their camping was about how they will improve the living conditions in gaza. Their opponents,who focused on their war with israel,lost.

    In rhetorics this is called "Sharpshooter fallacy". as you quote copy paste quotes,you seem to try to imply that,in six out of context lines,you have either captured these persons entire attitude and world view,or that with them you have summed up over 70 years of conflict in it's entirety. Again i must remind you that Rabin,who you quoted,lated singed a peace treaty and was assassinated by religious extremists for his pro peace activity. and sharon,whom you also quoted, was the one to pull out of the gaza strip and lebanon.

    More quotes of questionable value.
    You seem to ignore the fact that he is addressing rioters and not the arabic community at large.
    (Also you forget that shamir was a fucking moron.)

    You make a strong point here.
    ... i'm sorry,did i say "strong point" ? i meant: "no point".

    i'm still waiting for some reply that does not consist of stale copy pastes you found on the internet.
    i am also waiting for you to tell me how you know what gaza is like if you have never been there.
     
  15. Dr. Rice

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    If Hamas' opponents were about waging war on Israel and Hamas won, why did the Neocons and the Israelis have their panties in a knot when Hamas won? They weren't the ones advocating violence. So what was the reason for their complaints? Was it because they weren't taking it in the ass and accepting the status quo?

    Quoting out of context? Are you fucking kidding me? It doesn't matter what context these comments are in when you look at the statements. They are terrible and you are degrading yourself as a human for trying to defend such men. Yeah these men might have done great things with their lives towards peace, but when they say shit like "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." It is obvious they are psychopaths hiding under the guise of peace.

    When the leaders of a 70 year old conflict begin saying shit like this publicly, I wonder what is said behind closed doors.

    Doesn't matter, he was elected to represent your country and was stupid enough to say something this dumb. While our President Bush said plenty of dumb shit, it wasn't anything horrific.

    Saying something like ''We say to them from the heights of this mountain and from the perspective of thousands of years of history that they are like grasshoppers compared to us.''

    Implies that "We" (whoever it might be, I assume the Israelis) are infinitely superior to these rioters. I don't understand why he would make such references to rioters that imply superiority and they are grasshoppers. Instead of saying "We won't tolerate violent civil disobedience and will punish all those who resort to violence to express their frustrations" instead he said some megalomaniacal statement about Jewish heritage. There clearly is more than him degrading them as rioters than you are willing to admit (or can see). He is degrading them as humans by referring to them as grasshoppers.

    If this is a religious allusion he is making. It is not appropriate, in fact it makes it worse and further reinforces the fact he is implying Jewish superiority.

    I've never been to the Amazon, but I know what it is like. I've never been to India, but I know what it is like. I've never been to Europe, but I know it is like. There are testimonials from people who've been there and photographic evidence. Are you telling me that I have to have been in a country to talk about it or know about it. Lol what a red herring.

    Yes, I've never been to Gaza, but that doesn't mean I don't know what is happening there. Why? Testimonials and photographic evidence. The fact you are pretending that the rest of the world are the bad guys and they are conspiring and don't know what they are talking should tell you something. That something is that you are being brainwashed into believing who is right and who is wrong. When you think that the rest of the world is the enemy, that should be a wake up call to YOU being the enemy
     
  16. Dr. Rice

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  17. oddguy

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    We had our panties in a twist because everyone here knows which one was the more extremist party. Hamas just ran a better campaign then fatakh.

    “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized… They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals… The kaffir’s sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.”

    “Hitler killed five million Jews… But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.”

    These are quotes from mahatma ghandi.
    i can cherry pick too,it doesn't prove anything.

    You are purposely misinterpreting a quote that has little to do with this topic to begin with.
    He clearly means that rioting is futile,and despite his poor choice of words,your attempt to twist them into a racist hate speech are pathetic.
    Non of this changes the facts that this has nothing to do with the issue.

    1. i never caused anyone of conspiring. You are the one doing that.

    2. You have never been to gaza,and you really don't know what it's like. Just like every other place you have not been,you imagine it as the stereotype you are familiar with. Your testimonies are from biased sources,Your photographs are the ones that reach the news when something newsworthy happens and nothing else.

    You like testimonies ? Here's one:
    I have seen Gaza and is not that bad. It's more or less a giant,shitty slum. Nowhere near the nazi concentration camp it is made out to be.
    It's exactly what you would expect from a shitty third world country that has existed less then a decade and spends most of it's funds on religion and war. And though it may be a shithole,it is no bigger a shithole then anywhere in the middle east, and it certainly did not need our help to become one.

    Finally,I'm just arguing with you because i'm a jew and jews love arguing. If you had made a thread supporting israel i would just as quickly got on your case. i can easily refute every point iv made so far and then rebut my own rebuttals. Isreal is not the war hungry blood thirsty state it is made out to be by it's detractors. nor are the Palestinians are not the insane terrorist they are characterized as by their foes. Both sides of this debate are complete morons,and you are counted among them.

    Also,by definition that is not a red haring.
     
  18. Dr. Rice

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    You should have realized that sometimes you don't get when you want when you let the people decide on who they get to choose for their elected leaders. None of these parties would have ANY teeth or reason for winning if there was nothing wrong with the status quo. They won because there was something wrong with the status quo and the voters decided on voting for someone who would solver their problems. Oh the woes of a democracy when it is inconvenient for the powers of the status quo.

    I don't see anything wrong with these quotes because they are not implying an action taken by the speaker (still they are not the nicest of things to say, but still don't imply an action taken by the speaker). These quotes are implying an action that the speaker will take and that is the fundamental difference between them. These are government officials who are saying these things, not some activist with no governmental power.

    No I am not misinterpreting this quote. As a writer I understand ever person says exactly what they mean, whether they do it consciously or subconsciously. He is using incredibly violent rhetoric, that would constitute as murder, instead of saying "we will arrest these people" and he kept to this language on different occasions or continued this same language. He also is implying that "We" are superior to "them." People don't refer to other human beings as grasshoppers unless they wish to demonize them and take away their humanity.

    You are accusing people of conspiring because you said it yourself,

    So you are telling me that there are numerous people all over the world, of different religions, of different ethnic groups, and of different political backgrounds are all are plotting against Israel. That is admitting you are a victim of a conspiracy. Now don't get me wrong, I know what the PLO is up to. They sponsor (or use to sponsor) a program in which suicide bombers' families got welfare for the rest of their life. Yeah that is very fucked up, I do know what is happening on the ground. However, you aren't trying to punish the criminals and terrorists, you create a system that punishes everyone in order for them to BECOME terrorists and criminals so you can justify your actions.

    I know what happened with Rachel Corrie and how that bulldozer ran her over. She and the bulldozer faced off for 2 fucking hours before the driver decided to crush her to death. Instead of calling the police to move her or anything like that, the driver decided to run her the fuck over. This shit didn't even happen in this scenario

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Baya Rae 4900

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    Anyway, we should sell weapons to both the Israelis and the Palestinians then goad/bribe/trick them into killing each other. The longer the war lasts, the more profitable it will be for us.
     
  20. Dr. Rice

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    Who is us? I am beginning to suspect you aren't an Australian, but an American government agent O:
     
  21. Baya Rae 4900

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    By "us" I mean anybody smart enough to be selling the weapons. The Australian government. An Australian company. Et cetera.
     
  22. scumhook

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    I reckon we fence the fucking area off, and turn it into a massive cage match.

    Last nation standing wins.
     
  23. Sir Oswald Mosley

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    lol, jidf all up in this thread

    maybe you should try being a bit more subtle, rater than outright denying the blockade of gaza exits
     
  24. oddguy

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    The Prime Memeister

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    Represent.
     
  25. Sir Oswald Mosley

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  26. oddguy

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    i didn't deny it exists.
    i said it's there for a reason,and that all goods and necessities still get through to the gaza strip after they are inspected for contraband weapons.
     
  27. Sir Oswald Mosley

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    which is to punish them for not voting the right way

    nope
     
  28. oddguy

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    The Prime Memeister

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    To make it harder for them to get rockets to shoot at us.

    yep.
     
  29. Sir Oswald Mosley

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    the un, the israeli government, the plo, hamas and various human rights organisations disagree with you