How can anything pass the event horizon of a black hole?

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by Cock, Dec 8, 2013.

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  1. silverhaze06

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    It answers your question exactly. Their would appear to be a contradiction to the outside observer due to visual distortions, but none to the actual object falling in. So to the outside observer, the object would appear to freeze for a bit on the event horizon since that is the point at which Einstein's theory of relativity breaks down. But as this video, and many others like it explain, the actual object doesn't just stop falling. Matter can travel faster than light, provided the space it is occupying is being pulled faster than it. (e.g. inside a black hole.)

    And the universe does not end right before the event horizon. It extends well past the event horizon as well. The only thing that changes, is our known and accepted laws of physics. Also, black holes only evaporate after going long periods with absolutely no matter or background radiation feeding them. But a black hole of just one solar mass would take many quintillions of years to evaporate. Much longer than the age of the universe.

    So lrn2science. But you should probably lrn2spell before you take on that complicated monstrosity.
     
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  2. Cock

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    Yes, I also thought about the possibility of the object getting dragged into the EH by "surfing" on spacetime itself, which can go faster than light. However you are contradicting yourself by saying that the video answers my questions and yet Einstein's General relativity breaks down at the EH. GR is all we have to explain these things so without that we have nothing. Hence we don't know what happens.

    Also yes you probably wouldn't see the black hole evaporate, because universe would probably end before that happens (be it the big rip or something else).

    Also my spelling is fine. What the fuck are you talking about? Some random typos? Don't pretend that you care about those - that's ridiculous.
     
  3. silverhaze06

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    General relativity is not all we have to explain these things. That is where string theory and quantum gravity come into play. You should read up on those.
     
  4. Cock

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    Very hypothetical science. I stand my ground by saying "we don't know".
     
  5. silverhaze06

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    And so was Einstein's theory for many years after it first came out. But they are being accepted more and more by mainstream science everyday, and will only be a matter of time before they are accepted as fact. Because one thing is for sure, Einstein's theory is not correct, because it only tells half the story. It's an excellent starting point, but leaves many questions unanswered. Which is precisely why string theory and quantum gravity have been growing in popularity. It's just a matter of finding enough evidence to say for sure the theory is correct. And with CERN finally saying they have enough evidence to confirm the existence of the Higgs-Boson particle, it won't take very long from this point.
     
  6. Cock

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    Is this how you think science works? Because Einstein's relativity one once a hypothesis too ( just as every other theory) and was proven later on then that means string theory will be proven correct too? That doesn't make sense.

    Einstein's theory is not incorrect, just as Newton's classical mechanics is not incorrect as well. Every theory is "correct" to an extent. The newer theories just make the predictions more accurate. The older theores were correct to the extent they could be applied.

    Not saying string theory is bs. It is just extremely hard to prove it. I guess we'll see.

    Also aren't loop quantum gravity and string theory competing theories? They can't both be right, now can they?
     
  7. silverhaze06

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    No, ST & QG compliment each other quite nicely. And Newtonian gravity is quite incorrect. When you apply Newtonian gravity to the orbit of the planet Mercury, it cannot accurately predict its behavior. When you apply Einstein's theory though, it works perfectly. But when you apply GR to a blackhole, it breaks down completely. The evidence for ST and QG is there. That's the whole reason they built the LHC at CERN in the first place. Because that is the only thing available to us now that is capable of testing those theories since it is impossible to go inside a black hole, test things, and come back out. The LHC has already collected enough evidence to confirm the existence of the Higgs just within the past couple of months. So after the slow, slow, process of peer reviewing is done, it will be accepted as fact, just as Newton's and Einstein's theories were.
     
  8. silverhaze06

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    And before Newton, people thought God created the universe only 6,000 years ago and accepted that as fact as well. But it doesn't mean it is true. As we now have plenty of evidence to the contrary. It's called, progress mother fucker. Do you speak it?
     
  9. Cock

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    Oh boy. There is nothing "wrong" with Newton's gravity man. It was just incomplete, because people at the time didn't know anything about relativistic effects, spacetime and so on. So for it's time it was as accurate as the man could get it.

    Now to your god thing. The difference is that this idea about a god creating everything is not a model, which is capable of making predictions. It is basically useless. Newton's gravity however DOES make accurate predictions within the scope that it can be used. Newton's formulas are still used today:

     
  10. uberfukken

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    New paper released on the 22nd from none other than Stephen Hawking suggests everything we know about black holes is complete and utter bullshit.

    Dumbified news release

    Actual shit

    About fucking time someone says it.

    More specifically, everything we know about the event horizon is fucked. According to his new theory, nothing actually gets sucked into a black hole, just scrambled and stuck in the boundaries.
     
  11. Cock

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    Wait a second. I've heard that one before. Mr hawking taking credit for a well known alternative theory now?

    Edit: I'll read the paper before making any further accusations, but I distinctly remember a guy from youtube proposing something just like that. That there is no inside of a black hole and that the matter just gets distributed across the surface the EH.
     
  12. uberfukken

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    Well he's going on about how the event horizon doesn't exist. The paper itself is beyond my understanding but I can't recall an alternative theory pushing that particular line of thought.

    He claims it's the only model that fits with the quantum theory.
     
  13. PsychoSensei

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    This whole thread's logic is incorrect because you guys have no idea how black holes work.
     
  14. Arcticphoenix95

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    I think @Cock is referring to the holographic principle, where information is not lost when it crosses the event horizon but is "smeared" along the edge of the black hole.
     
  15. Cock

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    Yep I think that's the one.

    But I guess I shouldn't really criticize Hawking that much even if someone did think up something similar before he did. Here is a difference between having a little clever idea and actually writing a whole paper on it with all the crazy math and "proving" the damn thing, which is what he is good at.
     
  16. Arcticphoenix95

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    Funny thing is, the person who created said principle was Leonard Susskind, who hawking once debated over the black hole information paradox.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susskind-Hawking_battle#Black_hole_war
     
  17. silverhaze06

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    I think you are probably referring to this paper of his that I just came across.

    http://www.nature.com/news/stephen-hawking-there-are-no-black-holes-1.14583
     
  18. Cock

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  19. GSTalbert1

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    Well we are going to find out when, in the near future, we will see, 26k years ago, a black hole eating a gas cloud:

    [​IMG]

    Sauce
     
  20. Lazarus+

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  21. Cock

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    "There is a school of thought that says that anything that can exist must exist somewhere."

    Therefor white holes.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Lazarus+

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    Are you saying you think the phenomenon is real? Every science piece I've seen for years the majority sneers at the concept.
     
  23. Cock

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    I sneer at you.
     
  24. Lazarus+

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    coolio
     
  25. Weezus Christ

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    the reason anything can exist is because existence is subjective.

    just look at people that follow the fucking news.

    their retardation is melting reality.
     
  26. Lazarus+

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    are you familiar with epistemology and solipsism?
    this is a value-neutral question
     
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  27. Baya Rae 4900

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    More likely than not a black hole would be something incredibly mundane like the birth of a star. Logically, the reason a black hole has the characteristics it does is because it has a massive gravitational pull. No doubt to trap energy so it can begin the trillion nuclear holocausts per second when it becomes functional.
     
  28. Cock

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    That's some stupid ass hippie philosophy. I'll bust a cap in your face and let's see how "subjective" your death will be.

    They also help in the creation of new stars and the supermassive ones keep everything in galaxies in stable orbits, although dark energy plays a role in there too.

    Still though no proof of "white holes".
     
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  29. Baya Rae 4900

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    Didn't say it was, Estonian. Also, LOL at dark energy. You don't actually believe in that, do you?
     
  30. Cock

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    What's with the calling me by my ethnicity? Is that some sort of psychological thing? Did you read it from some self-help book?

    Anyway I cannot answer that question, because "dark energy" is roughly equivalent to "we have no idea what we are talking about". Do you believe in something you don't understand or know what is? Senseless question. Kind of like your existence.