Fascism. Left wing or Right wing?

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Rev, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Rev

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism "Fascism is commonly described as "extreme right"[48][49] although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[50] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.[32] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[33][34]" Debate!
     
  2. Dr. Rice

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    And to stress this point further. Let me cite a book written in 1929 titled "Making Fascists" that I have been working on transcribing ever so hard onto ED.ch
    http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/User:Uncle_Ben's_Rice
    The conclusion is clear, Fascism is left wing
     
  3. Rev

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    LIBERAL FASCISM IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE FROM NORMAL FASCISM BECAUSE IT HAS A FUCKING ADJECTIVE DISTINGUISHING IT, YOU STUPID FUCKING FUCK. I MEAN PLAIN, OLD MUSSOLINI FASCISM, YOU GODDAMN SHITTING RETARD.
     
  4. Dr. Rice

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    Liberal fascism is the name of the fucking book. Have you even bothered to look at the page (which is polite to do in an internet argument) you would have realized it is a book. God, not only are you and idiot, but don't even have common etiquette.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Fascism
     
  5. Rev

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    Who fucking cares? It's a book explaining an INTERPRETATION of fascism. An interpretation made by a retard.
     
  6. Seku

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    Such passion!
     
  7. Rev

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  8. Dr. Rice

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    Is that all you can say when presented not only with a modern interpretation of fascism (one that is incredibly well cited, I will admit there is clearly bias by the author to demonize modern day liberals, but he clearly has done significant research on Fascism and Nazism), but something that was written in 1929 by actual fascists themselves?
     
  9. Dr. Rice

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    I am presenting facts of what the Italian Fascists did and they are clearly motivated by what we today would consider a leftist ideology.
     
  10. Dr. Rice

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    I don't know how you are not seeing this observable fact.
     
  11. Rev

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    Nazism LIBERAL? Lolololk.
     
  12. Dr. Rice

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    Were the Fascists militaristic and imperialistic? Yes they were, but so were the Socialists and Federalists at the time period too!
     
  13. Rev

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    Please explain to me how in the fuck Nazism (directly linked to Fascism) is liberal.
     
  14. Dr. Rice

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    Instead of copying and pasting sections from wikipedia that merely state fascism/nazism is right wing, explain to me what specific policies of the Fascists and Nazis made them members of the right wing ideology. I dare you to do this.
     
  15. Seku

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  16. Rev

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    "It supports action, discipline, hierarchy, spirit, and will and rejects universal egalitarianism, materialism, and rationalism.[10] To achieve its goals, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration."

    "Fascism promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.[3][13] It views violence as a fact of life that is a necessary means to achieve human progress.[14] It exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society and providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character and creating national comradeship through military service.[15] Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents or to overthrow a political system.[16]"
     
  17. Dr. Rice

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    I already have you tard. Why don't you fucking read instead of running your mouth off.
     
  18. Dr. Rice

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    The socialists under Lenin and Stalin (and the rest of the soviets) did the same thing, would you call communism, socialism, and leninism right wing too?
     
  19. Dr. Rice

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    Please get better evidence.
     
  20. Rev

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    Would you?
     
  21. Akula

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  22. Dr. Rice

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    You know who else did that shit too? The progressives under Woodrow Wilson. Would you call these people, the predecessors to modern liberals as right wing too?


    No I wouldn't. This was the culture of all the major powers ideologies: fascist, socialist, and American Federalist. To say this was merely right-wing ignores the reality of politics and "contemporary" goals of political theory.
     
  23. Rev

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    WOULD YOU???
     
  24. Dr. Rice

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    So cite policy that the fascists or Nazis believed in that defined them as right-wingers.
     
  25. Rev

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    WOULD YOU?
     
  26. Dr. Rice

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    I think we are done here. Anyway people who look at this thread tomorrow, tell us who has a more convincing argument based on the merits presented by posting in this thread.
     
  27. Rev

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    Don't even. You can't convince anything worth shit because of the fascism ideology you so blatantly blaspheme by even typing about.
     
  28. Dr. Rice

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    Nothing you have cited as evidence is uniquely right wing which is why I am not even remotely convinced by your argument. So I will mention the points you should have and then shoot them down.

    Yes, fascism has right-wing ideological components in its rejection of egalitarianism and a creation of a hierarchical system. I would describe capitalism as left-wing (in comparison to all the economic policies that have ever existed). While egalitarianism is a part of capitalistic theory, the reality is capitalism is not egalitarian and it creates a hierarchical system.

    Now to say that fascism is warmongering is a strictly "right-wing" ideological aspect. Lets look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_socialism#War_Socialism and how influential it was.

    Now the reality is that all the ideological movements of the time: fascism, socialism, American progressivism were about changing the human condition and changing man. All three groups were pro-war and had thugs that beat people who weren't with the status quo.

    When you look at the numerous policies the fascists had: such as healthcare entitlements, secularism, reigning in of industry (yes fascism promoted corporatism, but government controlled the strings, not the other way around), destroyed all traditional sense of hierarchy (by destroying social status, there were still the existence of the political elite, but leninism and communism believed in an avant-garde who would lead the ideology also), protectionism (something I don't believe in, I support free trade), promoted the strength of (fascist) unions and made sure that the workers weren't screwed over by employers, wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor, and state run promotion of higher education.

    Are you going to argue these are right wing ideological tenets? I am sure that if you told right wingers today that these were aspects of their ideology simply based on they consider themselves right wingers, they would punch you in the dick.
     
  29. Dr. Rice

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    Not only are you wrong and retarded, you are a despicable brony scum.
     
  30. Rev

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    TL;DR, faggot.