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Discussion in 'Video Games & Weeaboo Shit' started by Infamous, Jul 17, 2011.
That took me ten minutes to write. I didn't spellcheck it.
In my opinion a "perfect" game is No Gods No Masters independent vegas, which seems the most "moral" choice, though it might not be the wisest, as an independent vegas does nothing to control the growing chaos, and it turns into kind of a shithole. I also did the moral options for everything else, such as evacuating the sorrows, trapping elijah, siding with mobius, and convincing ulysses with my words.
In a more pragmatic campaign, I would do the NCR, as they are probably the best for restoring "normal" civilization. They are proven territory builders, and have rudimentary democratic principles, and value the free market economy. I don't support the regime change in BOS, and do the moral things for all the other options as well. The NCR actually have some legit well set up cities where people can live and work without crazy stuff going on.
The problem with the NCR is that they're corrupt and spend money on crap they don't need. For one, they have a standing army and they're bankrupting themselves just by having a garrison in Nevada. (And not a very large one at that.) Efficiency is key to any longterm project. Caesar's Legion is much smaller and more primitive than the NCR but it concentrates its forces and uses terror tactics so it becomes effective despite its inabilities. (Divide et impera.) That's how other groups have also survived despite being enemies of much larger groups. (Both in the game and out.) Morality has little to do with anything. I felt bad about having to destroy the BOS not because I thought of those maniacs as brothers but because they're helping uncover and advance technology.
If only I could've gotten the Enclave, the BOS, the Great Khans and everybody else to fight for me instead of anybody else at the Hoover Dam.
No, they're actually solvent. They have supply line issues because their expansion has been too rapid lately. The troop commitment only represents a small part of their forces, yet they still held the dam against the legion. They are also managing to print paper money that has trade value, which is remarkable. NCR territories allow free trade, and modest representational government. Corruption is to be expected of any government. The NCR are the best hope for realistic social organization in the wasteland. The legion is not at all effective, it may have waged a decent geurilla campaign, but its social order is too reactive. Caesar had to burn a competent subordinate for a tactical loss. With a loss at the dam, any faith that coalition of tribes has is shattered, their alphas have gone down too hard, and the dogs will seek new leadership elsewhere.
You don't see the legion producing anything, it just conquers. The NCR has projects all over. For example they have the sharecroppers farms near New Vegas. Clear attempts to build for next year, not just conquer for today.
Governments don't produce anything by design. Caesar's Legion produces armour, coins, weapons and a whole bunch of stuff that does little outside to nothing outside of war. Same goes for the NCR. Their "money" is irrelevant as the wastelands already had a form of currency. The only reason the government currencies exist is so the various governments may monopolise on economic transactions and slowly bleed the economy (for profit) via inflation.
Traders and the like sing praises of Legion territory as it doesn't have taxes or bandits. House's territory also doesn't have any taxes, though he (as I understand it) has a stake in every casino and gets the money from the entry toll. No sane person would allow either's power unchecked. Economics is irrelevant in the wastelands as most consumables are leftovers from before the war or goods grown by farmers. The only mass-producers in the wastelands tend to be slavers in one form or another. There's plenty to scavenge as every place is underpopulated. In other words consumer demand is already being met. Those farms weren't created by the NCR but by private farmers.
Fucking libertarian faggots i thought youd be at home in a nuclear wasteland with no laws regulation or responsibilities.
So what you're saying is that you're unable to regulate yourself and you would abandon your responsibilities as soon as the government stops pointing a gun at your head?
How can a government run if it doesn't tax? Caesar works on some kind of pseudo-roman slave economy thats entirely dependent on a ready slave supply, especially if he wants continued supply chains of food. My point is, that if NCR dollars are worth caps, that means that the NCR government is solvent. Legion Denarii have metallic worth, requiring no solvency on the part of the issuing body. The legion has zero committment to intelectual advancement, and would face the eventual overthrow that comes to tyrants, "Sic Semper Tyranus", Thus always, to tyrants.
The NCR's dollar is worth about a fourth of a cap. The Legion's denarius is worth four caps. Roman slavery was private, Legion slavery is communal. The government can produce things and sell them. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that's what Caesar does. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in having a trader in the Legion camp overlooking the dam. Caesar only seems to enslave tribals. My guess is that they're easier to brainwash. Everybody else he either leaves alone or kills if he thinks they'll be a problem in the future. The NCR also partakes in slave labour. Or did you forget the Powder Gangers?
Only libertards cant tell the difference it seems
caesar has a trader in the camp for gameplay reasons. They don't produce any goods. This argument is complicated by the fact that you are stupid but think you aren't.
Only libertards don't try to justify forced labour.
It doesn't make much sense for them to have their own industry, currency and workforce but not sell at least some of what they make to others in order to subsidise their war effort. Keep in mind that the camp you see is just a forward base. They've taken over Denver. They could very well have their own industries.
So its not slavery really is it
See dumbfuck the difference is in one case you have someone who raped some 13 year old in the ass got sent to jail and now has to smash bolders. And the other where you have someone minding their own business when all of a sudden
Why oh why do libertards continue to make this false comparison
They are anti-intellectual and rely on slaves for virtually every labor service. They are not as eficient as the NCR, just good warriors. The NCR dollar is weak at the moment because the BOS blew up their gold reserves, so they've had to reback it with other precious metals. However, in NCR territory bottle caps have become worthless, and completely replaced by NCR dollars.
They are the most competent faction out there, they have 700,000+ citizens, government services, and voting. Its the most normal you'll probably see the wasteland get. Much better influence than Caesar's legion. What could you really do for anyone besides yourself as the new Mr. House? Oh sure the securitrons are fierce, I don't see them being useful for anything besides protecting new vegas. God knows they'd be a hassle to keep supplied with ammunition.
Slavery is forced labour, fuckwit. -_- And no, the slaves you reference were defeated tribes. As in they warred with other Negroid tribes (or Arab tribes) and lost. They weren't just "minding their own business." If they had won they would've sold their defeated foes into slavery as they were sold. You dimwit.
An alliance of tribes. As I wrote, alone none of these groups are any good but in a coalition or confederation they'd be quite powerful. The only reason most of them are powerless is because they're being driven into isolation by either the NCR, the Legion or both. They can all easily get what they want if the NCR and the Legion weren't there.
Lets face it, the NCR is a gleaming symbol of American order, of America getting itself back in order and getting ready to take over the world again, and you can't STAND that. Your thinking is clouded on this matter. You're an idiot.
I don't know if i want this game or not after reading your posts about NCR or slavery or Caesar.
No it is owning another person as property fuckwit
Again with the false comparison some cocksucker braking bolders after raping a 13 year old is not the same as buying some nigger and putting him to work for life
No, really, BOS and Enclave are my thing. (Not to mention other users of advanced tech like the Boomers, the Van Graffs, the Think Tank, Elijah, etc.) The NCR's special forces still uses motherfucking firearms. They're not much better than the Legion in regards to "intellectual thought" as far as I'm concerned. Most of their "achievements" are the result of private initiative. Which the Legion also has, for those who're under its control but outside the actual Legion.
Cling to your precious US of A, if you must. But know that you cling to the past, not the future.
Ever hear of public ownership, moron? Speaking of rapists, most of those Negroids that became slaves probably raped a few females (from rival tribes, but I don't they had such things as consent in Africa at the time, they might not even have it now) in their lifetime. You're just an ignorant motherfucker. Tell me, how does it feel like being as clueless as you are? They say that ignorance is bliss but that can't be right as you're clearly angry.
So owning another person as property != forced labor after a person has committed a crime for the duration of their punishment.
Is it really that hard for a libertard to understand ?
A person owning somebody as property is different from a government owning somebody as property how, exactly? The reasons/excuses they cite for they depravity notwithstanding.
The prisoner isn't owned as property and cant be sold
The person committed a crime before
Its for a fixed period in relation to that crime
After the time is up the person is released
Its not hard, Slavery is an abomination. Some jackass having to break boulders because he killed his mom is the least he deserves.
Now can we move on to the discussion where you claim that consensual sex between adults is the same as child rape ?
Did you know that criminals in pagan Europe were sold into slavery when they committed crimes?
Anyway, to answer your points:
The prisoners are often leased by the government to private businesses and are otherwise exploited for profit without receiving adequate compensation. One could argue that slaves are held to a high regard as slave owners back in the day had to pay an incredible amount for them while the government merely has to enforce its wacky laws or introduce new wacky laws in order to increase its exploitable manpower reserves.
Let's ignore the atrocious amount of people who've been sentenced to prison despite being innocent. Why are the majority of people seeing the inside of a prison in America? Drug related offences and other bullshit laws. The amount of "murders," "rapists," and other irredeemable criminals (all of which shouldn't be in prison but an asylum) is pittance compared to the amount of "criminals" who are guilty of crimes which shouldn't even be crimes in the first place.
Which is arbitrarily determined by the government.
They're put on probation and blacklisted from many jobs, practically forcing them back into a life of crime (of which they'd be introduced to if they weren't part of the culture before they entered prison) thus back to prison.
And there you admit the differnece
Not the same thing
The world is bigger than America paultard
So, hypothetically/metaphorically, you'd be okay with somebody pimping a slave but not with somebody selling a slave? So it's immoral to own another Human (unless of course you call yourself the government) but not okay with leasing them? What fucked up morality do you cling to?
How isn't it?
Oh, okay. So how about we start including all the political prisoners (and "moral criminals") in the world, then? Fuck off.
No paultard no matter how many times you claim that some jackass braking boulders because he shot up a store is comparable to the slave trade in africa its not. Even if the slave trade were run by "da fedural government" it wouldn't be the same thing factually or morally.
Because the idiot that shot up the store isnt a slave ? Because he is serving the punishment for the crime he commuted ? Oh noes hes not getting paid enough for his labours durr slavery durrrr!
Get the fuck off
Fine its still not slavery, Wrongful imprisonment at best.
Now for the "work at wallmart is slavery" argument
I've already explained to you how those "innocent" Negroids were just as brutal (if not more so) than the petty thugs in your shitty American cities.
Enslaved Negroids were enslaved because they murdered, tortured, raped, pillaged then lost a war to another tribe.
Yeah, and slavery is just a contract. Fuck off, hypocrite.
Im not interested in listening to "reserch" from ron pauls bff david duke. Also lol@ you claming i had fucked up morality.
"they deseverd it"
Nope its ownership of another person
YUNO PAY ME MUCH 4 WORKING AT WALLMART
SLAVERY IT TOTALLY SAME
So you've never seen the NCR heavy troopers at the dam with power armor?
I guess they are also pretty anti-intellectual for working to restore Helios-1. The NCR is the last best hope for capitalism against the communist politics of Caesar's legion and BOS.
They're personal bodyguards and exceptions that prove the rule. Also, that armour is salvaged. It's not actual power armour.
Baby steps compared to the groups I've cited.