Essay Topic/Thesis for Machiavelli

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Dr. Rice, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Dr. Rice

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    I have to write an essay for a political theory class and I decided to respond to something within the Prince. My professor has suggested topics to discuss, but I wanted to see if EDF.ch could come up with something interesting to write my paper around. After I turn in the paper, I will post the essay on here for anyone who cares (Snorlax) to read it.
     
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  2. SomeIdiot

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    thug mothafukking life
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  3. Dr. Rice

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    Unrelated: Tupac faked his own death so he could get away with murdering Biggy and Mac Dre. He currently releases new music under a rap name called Mackaveli (or some BS like that). Machiavelli talked about faking ones own death in order to get away with crimes. Coincidence? I think not!
     
  4. h00t

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    What did the Prof suggest ?
     
  5. SomeIdiot

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    2 pac was captured in sierra leone and prolly summarily executed

    i seen a pic of it i swear the resemblance was uncanny
     
  6. SomeIdiot

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    lool the real machiavelli taked about faking death 2 avoid prison? and 2pac did it haha lmao
     
  7. h00t

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    extremism vs extremism, its all the rage on C4
     
  8. Ronny

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    Niggers can't grasp the intellectual subtleties of Machiavelli. So that's just a coincidence
     
  9. Dr. Rice

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    Suggested topics

    13) Why does Machiavelli support his arguments by citing examples of real historical and contemporary rulers? Why does he emphasize his "long acquaintance with contemporary affairs and a continuous study of the ancient world"? How does this relate to what he hopes to accomplish in “The Prince”?

    14) Does The Prince present justice as nothing more than the interest of the stronger?

    15) How does Machiavelli define virtue? Why, how and in what way does he view it to be important?

    16) According to Machiavelli, what roles do fate and fortune play in human life?

    17) Should “The Prince be solely regarded as a blueprint for oppressive autocratic forms of government?

    18) In Chapter 18 of the Prince Machiavelli suggests that a Prince is compelled to know the ways of the beast. What does he mean by this
     
  10. SomeIdiot

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    lmfao ronny
     
  11. CallMeMaggot

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    Well, if I recall it correctly, Machiavelli exalted the virtue of "honor" or "virtue" as one of the most important for a politician, but "honor" in the Roman way, more like "dignitas", meaning the exaltation of the self

    Cesar was one of the prime examples of that, as a person who don't give a fuck about others, but at the same time tried to adjust to the public expectations about him, not because he had any need of social acceptation, but because fitting to the mos maiorum, the time-honored principles of his ancestors, was the better way of being...how I can say..."flawless" before himself

    I think that the Medici nobility to whom The Prince was aimed saw themselves a bit under the same light

    All that preamble lead us to the prime point: the psycopathic character traits of good leaders, which is a lulzy thing to argue in favor of in a class, basically because is true, but politically incorrect

    Do you see where I go? Do I need to elaborate more, or you can continue from that?
     
  12. CallMeMaggot

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    Umm, I think that my little rant hints answers to all that questions, except Nº 16
     
  13. Dr. Rice

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    I am going to do something like this unless someone comes up with something better. Thank you, I was waiting for you to respond to this thread.
     
  14. Ronny

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    Tell your professor that here in Italy we don't even study him anymore
     
  15. h00t

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    i like #14, smacks of life


    hmmm brain is having small firings ref the quote, must be some uni bollocks trying to emerge from my mushy grey matter- dont like thinking
     
  16. Dr. Rice

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    Can you elaborate more please?
     
  17. CallMeMaggot

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    I'll do, gladly...but I doubt I can do it tonight

    Any point in particular? Give me something to focus, plx
     
  18. Dr. Rice

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    Just ramble coherently.
     
  19. Dr. Rice

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    Though I am thinking something along these lines: Should “The Prince be solely regarded as a blueprint for oppressive autocratic forms of government?"

    I am thinking about arguing that as much as different styles of government (democracy, autocracy, aristocracy) all have different interests as means of government, but once one has the role of leadership, all ideals are thrown out for the maintenance of the system.
     
  20. CallMeMaggot

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    I see...and have already some ideas to elaborate, I'll think a bit about them. Tomorrow I'll have something for you.
     
  21. Dr. Rice

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    Excellent, thank you!
     
  22. CallMeMaggot

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    Ok, let's rant

    You want to argue (imho) that any social entity (any group, any political party, any big comercial company, etc) once it reaches a critical level of complexity, it comes to some kind of life on its own, way beyond the understanding and desires of its members.

    That's true, and I think Machi knew well too.

    Then, one of the key point of The Prince is that you have two options.

    1º Or you let it happen, and then you have to resignate to any hope of being in control of that entity

    2º Or, if you can, you can take (autocratic) control of the system, and then you can exert some kind of influence on that entity and its interaction with the surrounding ecosystem (composed mostly of other entities too)

    I think The Prince is some kind of manual about how achieving and maintaining that second option.

    It has an opressive and cynical feeling because you need to exert oppression and be quite cynical to succeed in that

    Machi (and now we return to the great Roman examples, like e.g. Cesar or Marius or Sulla) didn't write that as a guidebook for the lunatic and heartless dictator...he wanted the best for the populace of the city-states, it's only than in his opinion, the best way to achieve it is by putting a strong and moral (although rutless) leader in charge

    For Machi, the main criteria to validate a leadership is an utilitarian one, which was pretty radical for the epoch

    And that requires an exceptional strong personality to be in charge, one who has ethic convictions so intense as to don't give a fuck about the imperant moral of his enviroments.

    The Prince tries to argue that, and then provide some techniques to maintain such (kind of) persona (lity) in charge, against the inevitable resistence (political and moral) that such an attitude is undoubtely going to trigger

    Does that make sense?

    Btw, I found my copy of the book, I knew i had it somewhere:

    purplerain.

    Pretty old, lol
     
  23. Dr. Rice

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    My thesis is "Should “The Prince be solely regarded as a blueprint for any form of government?" My argument stems from that, while there are different systems of government: autocracies, aristocracies, and Republics, all of which have different interests, at the end of the day, they must be realists and decide on policy that supports the status quo of the current system. I like your point about the utilitarian aspect and that entities take on life, and I plan on elaborating on that in my essay. Also please lets discuss this more.
     
  24. GSTalbert1

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    For some time I have found a link between Summers - Leo Strauss - Nietzsche and Machiavelli. Read Summer's assessment of Machiavelli's Mandrake then compare with Strauss'. Then find other possible sources of this interpretation.
     
  25. Boudica

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    no
     
  26. GSTalbert1

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