Enlightment

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Barbarulna, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Barbarulna

    Barbarulna
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    Ediot

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    If you hate the material world so much, why don't you commit suicide?
     
  2. Robert Paulson

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    EDF Hero

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    no, u
     
  3. Semjaaza

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    Purveyor of the spiciest memes. Est. 1989

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    You should be ashamed of this thread.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Barbarulna

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    Ediot

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    Struck a nerve?
     
  5. oddguy

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    The Prime Memeister

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    Still haven't worked up the nerve.
    Also, it's more complicated than one might think.
     
  6. Barbarulna

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    Ediot

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    Yes, I'm aware of the differences between gnostic, hermetic, buddhist, hindu and platonist enlightment quests. Indo-europeans religions had very strange opinions on the physical universe.
     
  7. oddguy

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    The Prime Memeister

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    No no, killing yourself is complicated. Does anyone really know how to tie a hanging noose?
    You get ready to kill yourself, spend an hour finding instructions online on how to do it because everyone's a pussy and won't just tell you, then by the time you figure out how to ACTUALLY do it from the shitty guide the moment is already gone.
     
  8. Murdoc esp

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    soy un vago de mierda....
    Yeah,I despise this plastic era we live but killing myself would just benefit my enemies so fuck them, they have to die first if people wanna see me in a coffin.
     
  9. Harpoons

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    Fissure of Man

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    So go jump off a tall building, or off a motorway bridge into speeding traffic. Smash your phone, lock your doors, throw the keys out the window and then slit your brachial/femoral arteries. Get in the bath with a toaster. Overdose. Blow your brains out. There are a myriad of ways that a determined person could successfully kill themselves on the first attempt, all it takes is a little foresight and common sense.
     
  10. j15m

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    You seem wicked educated.
     
  11. Barbarulna

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    Ediot

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    Indeed I am.
     
  12. GSTalbert1

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    Girlvinyl

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    LMFAO, clearly you do not.

    They knew that if you drop a rock it will fall, really we haven't gotten much further than that, so what exactly are you using as a reference of measurement?
     
  13. Semjaaza

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    Metaphysics is a nonsense. Even if there existed a metaphysical 'realm' or state, we are wholly physical beings extant in a physical world. You can no more become 'enlightened' than you can be bodily accepted into heaven like Enoch. It's all just navel-gazing nonsense designed to distract people from the chaos of life.

    Life is pain and struggle and strife and the inherent drive to control your environment and shape your own destiny. Fucking about sitting in the lotus position or praying on your knees are both just attempts to circumvent the inherently tumultuous (though ultimately satisfying) nature of life, in the pursuit of something higher/better/more pure. You won't fucking find it because it isn't there.

    You are born an incidentally complicated ape, are made more complicated by experience and then you eventually die, having spent your time in one absurd and meaningless path or another. You die, and having ever existed was, objectively speaking, an exercise in abject pointlessness. It matters to nothing and no-one and there is no reality outside of that. You can't escape this reality, only waste your limited time in attempting to do so.
     
  14. Onideus

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    No, no you really aren't actually.

    If you killed yourself, you would simply be reincarnated again and again and again with the same psychological deficiencies each time. Achieving enlightenment is done through LIVING, not being dead. It's the whole concept of "relieving suffering in the world". The "eightfold path" and all that happy horseshit.

    ...you really, REALLY don't know fuck all about the subject.
     
  15. GSTalbert1

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    Girlvinyl

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    Yes and no, metaphysics really is just a word for the continuing lectures on physics so try not to get bogged down by the word. Really it is the original progressive field, after poetic pagan theology of course, as it has always pointed to it's own transcendence.

    There are never any answers, only questions.

    Can we control nature? At best it seems we have but two options and that is we may either submit to it or live with it in harmony.

    Man as the measure of all things is something entirely different than Man as the master of all things.

    They are trying to pursue a better vision of themselves.

    This is a beautiful metaphysical sentiment you proposed, it is a pity you don't believe in them.


    [​IMG]
     
  16. Semjaaza

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    My point regarding man within his environment was more in the vein of the individual actor as he exists within societal structures, be they organic or enforced; the driving will to have sovereignty (real or illusional) over the self, to such an extent that one is not a pawn of another (be that an individual or a group/structure) including the ability to control others when deemed necessary as regards actualising the will of the sovereign self.

    It is possible to exist 'in harmony with' or 'submit to' the natural order of things, but that in and of itself (like meditating/praying) is merely an attempt to escape having to exist as a sovereign being, rather to exist as part of a wider structure or consensus, absolved of any responsibility for the self - a very impotent existence.

    The self is the only measure of anything given the problem of fallibility (vis a vis epistemological solipsism) thus it is only through the actions and will of the sovereign self that any sense can be made of the environment as it is understood through the internal logically-consistent narrative - insofar as it can be described as both inherently subjective and logically-consistent, which I admit sounds like a contradiction on the face of it . All such understanding is inherently subjective and uniquely personal, given the problem of context and frame of reference and the wider problems of semantics and language in general.

    As for Maimonides, it might be better leaving him to Oddguy. Being a jewish theologian/philosopher, he doesn't really gel with my a-theistic world view.
     
  17. GSTalbert1

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    Girlvinyl

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    Man as an individual actor? Far too much unwarranted speculative woo-hoo for me.

    What you are describing is Absolute Freedom, not only do you have a God but you are praising Him in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

    It sounds very Nietzschean that's where you get those Hegelian undertones of the synthesis of subjective and logical unavoidable with his sort of project, bear in mind Nietzsche disproved logic along the lines Hume drew out. Really what an interesting metaphysical position, for a man who doesn't believe in metaphysical positions.

    Yet he supersedes your view, and all views of theist/atheist/agnostic and is essentially the man who spurred all major scientific and philosophic revolutions in the west by giving them the full fruits of knowledge the east and the ancients had born.
     
  18. Baya Rae 4900

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    Lawlman

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    Because some people have responsibilities, dickwad. We can't all be a useless waste of space like you.
     
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  19. Barbarulna

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    Ediot

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    The general emphasis on metempsychosis, unseen in most other systems. Even the Norse believed in reincarnation at least some extent, as seen in the Poetic Edda.

    There's also many other oddities, like a bizarre trivialisation of solar worship.


    If you follow the path set, then you are fit for reincarnation. And honestly, many of the texts don't make it out as negative; Plato even describes people willingly becoming songbirds and vice versa. Really, it's only this hatred of the physical world that makes it such an obsession.

    That's precisely what I'm saying, stupid fuck.
     
  20. Baya Rae 4900

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    Lawlman

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    Then articulate yourself better, you worthless fuck.
     
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  21. Onideus

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    No, dumbass. Reincarnation is *BAD*, that means you *DIDN'T* reach enlightenment, you fucked it all up and you get to do it all over again from scratch until you get it right. If you reach enlightenment, that is you're able to let go of all your attachments and become free from the "self" then when you die your ~magical~ "skandhas" ascend to a higher plane of existence or some shit. Plato was not a Buddhist either, Dumbass. Plato's shit is like...a bastardized, western style version of Buddhism at best.
     
  22. Bottom Feeder

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    I don't think enlightenment opposes the material, on the contrary, I believe it's supposed to reinforce the idea about the inherent connexion that everything has with everything, making all distinctions an illusion and all forms void.
     
  23. Baya Rae 4900

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    I grew up in Pax Americana. It taught me that might is right. It taught me that moral highgrounds mean dick all. It taught me that if you want to live in peace then you have to kill anyone and everyone who might directly or indirectly disturb that peace. It taught me that ideologies and religions and ideas mean nothing to a man with a gun. It taught me that the world is full of those who do and those who don't. It taught me that those who butchers are those who do and those who're butchered are those who don't. It taught me that those who debate morality of metaphysics in general do so from a position of extreme comfort. It taught me that the powerful are hypocrites and the powerless need not try to placate them. It taught me revolutionary fervour the likes of which history has never seen before. Because they're no content with killing you, you see. Nor with taking everything you have. Nor with torturing and raping your family and friends. Your people. No. They're not content until they tell you that you deserve it. To your face. Without battering an eyelid. They will destroy everything you love, exploit you and then tell you that you should appreciate the privilege. We had a chance, as a species, after the fall of the Berlin Wall to make amends. To unite as siblings and embrace our evolutionary supremacy. Instead, those drunk on a false victory decided to ravage the world. Shamelessly. Humanity's not suffering for it now. It will. In time. The hubris of man will be his undoing, as always. Those on the top will experience what those at the bottom experienced. At their hands, no less. My brothers and sisters, the rusty sword of justice sleeps but it won't sleep forever. It can't. If it does then I'll have given up. I'll abandon my species to the fate it so solemnly deserves. Because the worst thing I can do is nothing. Then, perhaps, the powerful might appreciate how the powerless feel. Only blood can redeem blood.
     
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  24. Maysam

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  25. Baya Rae 4900

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    Lawlman

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    It's me getting through the day without feeling the urge to wipe your insectoid tribe from the face of the planet, German.
     
  26. Maysam

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    :D So much anger... Don't you think it's time to let go of these archaic views?
    I understand myself as a part of the human race, not a part of a "tribe". But you can can call me what you want, if it makes you happy.
    Have fun playing btw. (Srsly, not trying to mock you)
     
  27. Baya Rae 4900

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    Lawlman

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    Humans are a species, numbnuts. And no, you do have a tribe. It's not something you can disown. Plus if you're not loyal to your tribe what makes you think you can be loyal to your species? Nobody should trust anybody who would betray their own kindred like that. Such creatures are filth, regardless of their lineage.
     
  28. Maysam

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    I am loyal to my ideals and my species, that's why I consider things like tribes and their petty rivalries and quarrels as something of the past. (Our species') Fragmentation hardly leads to cooperation, harmony and advancement(or does it?)

    Okay, maybe advancement through competition, but I believe in other ways.
     
  29. oddguy

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    Okay, are we talking about enlightenment or suicide in this thread?
    Help in achieving either one would be good.
     
  30. Baya Rae 4900

    Baya Rae 4900
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    Lawlman

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    Your tribe is (simply put) a more tangible physical manifestation of your biological inheritance than your species is. If you're not loyal to the former then you can't possibly be loyal to the latter.