EDFs War Megathread

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Call me Tim, Apr 6, 2017.

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  1. Likeicare

    Likeicare
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    EDF is my hugbox

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    I'm 98% sure you misunderstand the entire message of that movie
     
  2. Likeicare

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    Im not arguing that

    Im just enjoying cmts refusal to say those words
     
  3. Hitmonchan

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    Boxer by day. Boxerless at night.

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    Boxer by day, boxerless at night ;)
    US international policies discussed among non-Americans (and Baya).

    EDF, y'all!

    Syria and to an extent Jordan have a shitload of oil, so get ready for some good ol' Murkan petrorapin', Iraq war style.
     
  4. Call me Tim

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    I am Groyper Supreme

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    I'm 100% sure you missed the joke.

    You're fucking retarded.
     
  5. Likeicare

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    How? Thats the real reason the US is in Syria

    To stop the Iran/Russia sphere of influence from extending and in the process get what they can out of it

    Everyone with a brain knows those "chemical attacks" never happened, Syria destroyed all its chems a long time ago. Its literally Iraq all over again

    Or are you conveniently forgetting how the US made Iraq disarm, then after they had, made up a lie about them having WMDs so they could invade
     
  6. Call me Tim

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    You're fucking retarded.

    When the Russian sphere of influence expands, they seem to aquire real estate. In fact the correlation is 100%.
    https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/07/05/forgotten-chemical-attacks-syria
    You are retarded for still pushing the Russian narrative.

    LOL. You're really retarded today.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/100000003173431.mobile.html?_r=0
     
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  7. Likeicare

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  8. Likeicare

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    Direct quote from that article

    The only chems found in Iraq were old ones the US gave them
     
  9. Likeicare

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    Nice article tim, really helps your argument

     
  10. Likeicare

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  11. Likeicare

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    Did you ruin your argument on purpose
     
  12. Likeicare

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    @Call me Tim you literally linked to a huge NYT article detailing how the US completely makes shit up so it can attack countries
     
  13. Call me Tim

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    tl;dr Iraq had chem weapons, not in great quantity, but retained the capability to create ChemWeaps in a very short amount of time and were using "dual use" chem factories to amass and create precursor chems.



    Iraq constructed a number of new plants starting in the mid-1990s that enhanced its chemical infrastructure, although its overall industry had not fully recovered from the effects of sanctions, and had not regained pre-1991 technical sophistication or production capabilities prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF).


    • ISG did not discover chemical process or production units configured to produce key precursors or CW agents. However, site visits and debriefs revealed that Iraq maintained its ability for reconfiguring and ‘making-do’ with available equipment as substitutes for sanctioned items.
    • ISG judges, based on available chemicals, infrastructure, and scientist debriefings, that Iraq at OIF probably had a capability to produce large quantities of sulfur mustard within three to six months.
    • A former nerve agent expert indicated that Iraq retained the capability to produce nerve agent in significant quantities within two years, given the import of required phosphorous precursors. However, we have no credible indications that Iraq acquired or attempted to acquire large quantities of these chemicals through its existing procurement networks for sanctioned items.
    MSE REDEFINES “DUAL-USE”
    The term “dual-use” refers to resources that have both WMD and legitimate civilian or conventional military applications. MSE pursued legitimate industrial projects in addition to CW agent production, particularly after the end of the Iran-Iraq war. Pesticide and pharmaceutical research took place at Al Muthanna alongside CW development, often involving the same people.

    Iraq initially chose not to fully declare its CW weapons and infrastructure, a decision usually attributed to Husayn Kamil and implemented by senior personnel including his senior deputy, Amer al-Sa’adi.

    • Anticipating that inspections would be an ineffective and short-lived inconvenience, Iraqi leaders decided in early April 1991 to hide significant components of the CW program, including weapons, precursors, and equipment.
    • Following a particularly invasive IAEA inspection in late-June 1991, Saddam ordered Dr. Mahmud Faraj Bilal, former deputy of the CW program, to destroy all hidden CW and BW materials, according to an interview with Bilalafter OIF.
    • Available evidence indicates Iraq destroyed its hidden CW weapons and precursors, but key documentation and dual-use equipment were retained and were later discovered by inspectors.
    For the next five years, Iraq maintained the hidden items useful for a CW program restart but did not renew its major CW efforts out of fear the UN sanctions would not be removed.
    Iraq’s chemical industry surged in the late 1990s, when more financial resources became available to the Regime. Although Iraq still lagged behind its pre–Gulf war capabilities, it was able to divert a portion of its revenue to purchase new plants and renovate existing ones to renew its basic chemical industry.


    • Iraq was successful in procuring, constructing, and commissioning a complete state-of-the-art chemical facility for ammonium perchlorate through the Indian company NEC. Ammonium perchlorate is a key chemical for missile propellants.
    • Iraq began refurbishing, and in some cases expanding, existing chemical facilities with foreign assistance. For example, the Al Tariq complex renovated its chlorine and phenol lines and restarted them in March 2000, according to reporting.
    Between 1996 and 2003, the IIC coordinated large and important projects for the indigenous production of chemicals.

    • A written order from Saddam established the National Project for Pharmaceuticals and Pesticides (NPPP). NPPP focused on the synthesis of drugs and pesticides, for which Iraq in the past relied heavily on foreign suppliers.
    • The IIC examined over 1,000 chemicals for initial R&D to determine the feasibility of scaled-up production. ISG notes that two chemicals on this list were compounds that are consistent with an experimental VX pathway.
    • The process for vetting the 1,000 chemicals for economic feasibility and large-scale production was intensive and formalized. The IIC leadership built in several layers of review, research, and justification before compounds were selected for scale-up, raising further suspicion about the three compounds, particularly dicyclocarbodiimide (DCC)—a dehydrating agent that can be used as a VX stabilizer
    • Dr. Ja’far Dhia Ja’far, and IIC member, could not recall which projects were accepted for scale-up but he knew that some compounds were dual-use and declarable to the UN, and that the National Monitoring Directorate (NMD) did not declare all of the chemicals.


    Reports of an unexplained discovery of VX traces on missile warhead fragments in April 1997 led to further tension between UNSCOM and Iraq. The uneasy relationship escalated with the discovery of the ‘Air Force Document’ (see RSI chapter) in July 1998, which indicated further Iraqi deception and obfuscation over its CW disclosures. Iraq’s anger about these two major issues was a contributing factor to Saddam’s decisions to suspend cooperation with UNSCOM and IAEA.

    • The lack of inspectors allowed further dual-use infrastructure to be developed. The lack of effective monitoring emboldened Saddam and his illicit procurement activities.
    There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD production after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise. In addition to preserved capability, we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted. All sources suggest that Saddam encouraged compartmentalization and would have discussed something as sensitive as WMD with as few people as possible.

    • Huwaysh claimed that in 1999 Saddam asked how long it would take to build a production line for CW agents. Huwaysh tasked four officials to investigate, and they responded that experts could readily prepare a production line for mustard within six months. VX and Sarin production were more complicated and would take longer. Huwaysh relayed this answer to Saddam, who never requested follow-up information. An Iraqi CW expert separately estimated Iraq would require only a few days to start producing mustard—if it were prepared to sacrifice the production equipment.
    In addition to the ASPs and CEA sites, ISG undertook a systematic effort to review and investigate a series of depots that factored prominently in pre-OIF assessments of possible CW transshipment activity in the 2002-2003 timeframe. Several studies, based primarily on imagery Analysis at that time concluded that Iraq probably deployed CW munitions from depots to ammunition supply points throughout Iraq as part of ongoing preparations for war. The original list of 11 sites at which activity had been noted was narrowed to two main depots for intensive ISG investigation, including site visits, technical assessments, and personal interviews.

    • Imagery analysis observed indication of ammunition movement Iraq in 2002. Analysis of specific activity—at the 11 depots—raised increased analytic scrutiny and prompted a review of munitions transshipment signatures throughout Iraq.
    • The key indicators to identify suspect CW munitions movement and storage included the presence of special guards, vehicles assessed to be decontamination trucks, cargo vehicles, and the grading of top soil near suspect bunkers.
    ISG began an investigation of the 11 major depots by reviewing imagery reporting of the sites to determine feasibility for site exploitations and by subsequent site visits and identification of individuals and military officials who had previously worked there. ISG analysis revealed that most of the sites were destroyed or looted during or shortly after OIF, and the military officers who worked there proved difficult to locate.

    • ISG conducted an in-depth investigation of the Al-Musayyib Storage Depot—assessed prior to OIF to have the strongest indicators of CW movement—in an attempt to understand the nature of suspect CW transshipment activity there between 1998 and 2002. (See Annex H for a detailed account).
    • Reporting indicated the presence of a suspect CW decontamination vehicle at the Miqdadiyah Depot north of Baghdad and prompted an ISG operation to recover two vehicles for exploitation.
    • The remaining sites were not visited because indicated looting and destruction that prevented the discovery of any munitions remaining from pre-OIF
    https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5.html



    tl;dr Iraq had chem weapons, not in great quantity, but retained the capablity to create ChemWeaps in a very short amount of time and were using "dual use" chem factories to amass and create precursor chems.
     
  14. Likeicare

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    Again you even highlighted the parts that said that Iraq had the capabilities to make chem weapons but didn't, and you posted an article outlining how the US has actively lied to the global population for last 14 years about the Iraq invasion






    Lol
     
  15. Call me Tim

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    Chem weapons were in too degraded a state to be safely moved.
    I linked the article to prove there were chem weapons available to Iraq/Saddam.
    Hiding chem weapons evidence so it the US can attack countries. :| Explain how that one works.
     
  16. Likeicare

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    After all your text walls, the fact remains that , the only chemical weapons of any kind that Iraq had were the ones built and given to them by America
     
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  17. Call me Tim

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    You missed the part about VX and precursors. If you're one of those types who doesn't see a rifle unless it's assembled then that is your problem.
     
  18. Likeicare

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  19. Call me Tim

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    No they had their own program. This is the Times again.
     
  20. Likeicare

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    In the 80s under US supervision?

    Why doesnt the US stop supplying countries with WMDs?
     

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