EDFs War Megathread

Discussion in 'Religion & Politics' started by Call me Tim, Apr 6, 2017.

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  1. Likeicare

    Likeicare
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    You STILL dont get it

    US intelligence agencies do not know North Koreas nuclear capabilities

    So why are you repeating what you read off a website as fact
     
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  2. Call me Tim

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    Rueters
    February 28, 2006

    ..U.S. intelligence chief John Negroponte declined to estimate the number of
    nuclear devices North Korea might have assembled, despite
    repeated questioning by Democrats at a hearing by the Senate
    Committee on Armed Services.

    "I've been very reluctant to get into numbers," Negroponte
    told the panel's annual public hearing on worldwide threats.

    "We assess that they probably have nuclear weapons, as they
    claim that they do.
    But we don't know for a fact that they've
    got such weapons ... So to then say with precision the number
    they've got, I think, would be difficult to do with our level
    of knowledge," he added.
    ....
    "We assess that they are in the process of developing an
    intercontinental ballistic missile that would be capable of
    delivering a nuclear warhead, but they have not done so yet,
    nor have they tested it," Maples told the Senate hearing.


    Maples said U.S. intelligence believes North Korea
    continued to produce plutonium for its nuclear weapons program
    last year from its 5-megawatt reactor in Yongbyon,
    where a
    larger 50-megawatt reactor is under construction.

    Eleven years ago.

    The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded with "moderate confidence" that North Korea might have a nuclear weapon that's small enough to be placed on a ballistic missile. But the DIA also says that if that is the case, the reliability of the missile would be low.
    April 2013
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/north-korea-put-nuke-missile-us-intelligence-agency/story?id=18935588

    Jeffrey Lewis, an analyst at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies, used the photo to estimate the device’s size, from which he deduced its weight — a few hundred kilograms — and its destructive yield, about 20 kilotons, roughly equivalent to the atomic bombs that the United States dropped on Japan.

    But more important than yield was its small size – about 60 centimeters in diameter – which appears to match North Korea’s claim that it can fit on their long-range missiles, a major leap forward for the country’s nuclear prowess.
    ...
    That’s why Michael Madden, an analyst, tracks appearances by North Korean officials. Here, he spotted civilian officials and two key military leaders: the head of the nuclear program and the head of missile forces, both in civilian clothing.

    That sends a clear message: Mr. Kim is asserting that he runs the nuclear weapons program personally, cutting out the usual chain of command. “This is not rule by the military anymore. This is rule by one man,” said Joshua Pollack, who edits the Nonproliferation Review.
    FEB. 24, 2017
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/24/world/asia/north-korea-propaganda-photo.html

    Dr. Hecker, a man who has built his share of nuclear weapons, noted last week, any weapon that could travel that far would have to be “smaller, lighter and surmount the additional difficulties of the stresses and temperatures” of a fiery re-entry into the atmosphere.
    ... ....
    Dr. Hecker visited Yongbyon in 2010, and the North Koreans showed him a complete uranium enrichment facility, which American intelligence agencies had missed. The message was clear: The North now had two pathways to a bomb, uranium and plutonium. Today, it has an arsenal made up of both, intelligence officials say.
    APRIL 24, 2017

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-missile-program.html

     
    #502 Call me Tim, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  3. Likeicare

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    Im not sure why you are trying to use this as evidence for your argument. It quite literally states that NK has nuclear weapons which we already know, amd they dont have any real details other than that besides guesses they have made based on photos of devices


    Are you purposely making yourself look stupid here?
     
  4. scumhook

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    lol did you actually read all that shit?
     
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  5. Call me Tim

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    I'm stating the intel community has a better "guess of what NK's nuclear capabilities" than they are willing to release to the public.
     
  6. haeByung

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    Yeah it was a mistake to try to respond to the arguebot Tim

    No matter what I say you'll just copy paste some random articles and act like you know what you're talking about
     
  7. Call me Tim

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    Again, still not familiar with the Korean war?
    If each ROK combat aircraft destroyed 10 NK arty pieces per mission, how many times would each plane need to fly if there are no losses?
    I'm not stating that ROK forces are inferior or are not dedicated to protecting Not all bad Korea from Best Korea, but there are limits to men and machine.
     
  8. haeByung

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    Korean war was 70 years ago. If you haven't noticed, things are quite different now.

    Of course a bunch of people will die and some buildings and streets will be damaged if North Korea suddenly went even more apeshit crazy and started firing all their artillery at Seoul. But no. They wouldn't come close to "leveling" an entire city with their shit artillery. For some odd reason, you seem to think South Korean military forces will do nothing and sit back and let North Koreans attack. Obviously they will immediately respond and destroy North Korean artillery with a vastly superior artillery + air force of their own.

    And seriously stop you really don't know what you're talking about at all. Your tl;dr response to my post was even more cringey than your last post.

    I don't get why you feel the need to argue about everything everyone has ever said. Obviously some people here knows a lot more than you do on some things
     
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  9. Stumbles

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    The only scenario where NK is successful at conquering the south with their current capabilities is if Russia and China intervene on their behest. The intelligence community has their entire country mapped out and know where stuff and can figure out where an attack would come from.
     
  10. Likeicare

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    I read what was underlined in the article

    Which directly contradicts everything he is saying
     
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  11. Likeicare

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    NK can flatten Seoul within the space of 5 minutes. They might not be able to conquer the country without help but they can easily kill millions instantly which is the main reason why the US has not attacked them at this point
     
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  12. Likeicare

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    They have openly "released to the public" that they are not at all sure of NKs capabilities, nuclear or otherwise, which is why they have gotten to this point.

    Last year the intel community was saying that NK would not be able to mount a nuke on a ballistic missile until 2020

    Now they say it's possible they already have missiles that can reach the US mainland






    Stop using websites as a source when the actual intelligence agencies themselves say differently
     
  13. haeByung

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    lol no

    How you guys can talk for weeks about things you obviously have no idea about astonishes me
     
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  14. Stumbles

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    Please re-read all of @haeByung's posts in this thread and others concerning Evil-Doer Korea.

    You do realize that intelligences agencies don't like to get specific about intel they have because a certain level of detail could jeopardize a source, reveal how advance their surveillance abilities are, and how the public react in the light of information that could perceive as frightening.

    North Korea is probably the most heavily surveilled country in the entire fucking world. The US spends millions a day just to take new pictures and get SIGINT. Not only that, the South gets defectors from time to time. Janes defense weekly tends to get unclassified info from sources within the agency, they also infamously posted classified photos before because they had an internal source that violated his security clearance.

    Jesus, you are more contrarian than Tim is.
     
  15. Likeicare

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    Of course, they are openly saying "hey NK we have no idea wut ur doing lol" just to trick them right?


    If they had accurate intel on NK they would have stopped them over a decade ago, but because they did not have accurate intel they are now in a meltdown and dont know what to do
     
  16. Likeicare

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    Remember that argument you had with me several weeks ago where you claimed that South Korea and the US had never committed war crimes
     
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  17. haeByung

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    ....I never said that and that has nothing to do with this whatsoever

    Yeah this is really retarded
     
  18. Stumbles

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    Lack of accurate intel isn't what prevented us from intervening during the Bush years. Bush got caught up in two land wars in the Middle East. Bush continued doing what presidents did since Eisenhower, he continued appeasement. If he did intervene, China would of gotten involved on the wrong side because they were still on speaking terms with the North Koreans (China didn't wise up to North Korea violating their borders until later). The US was simply in a position where intervention would of escalated into war with China.

    Right now, North Korea has put themselves in the worst possible spot they could be in since the war. Russia isn't interested in them. China is furious with them and cutting off ties, including ever so precious financial aid. South Korea became an economic power house with a strong military. The US finally has a president that isn't like his predecessors and wants to intervene if possible. Kim Jong-Un may be dead this time next year because the oligarchy that surrounds him isn't going to be stupid enough to get into conflict without China's help.
     
  19. Call me Tim

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    But you're not one of them.

    1. They wouldn't have to necessarily level all of Seoul to achieve the real purpose considering Best Korea has one of the largest if not the largest stockpile of chem and bio weapons. But you even have seemingly agreed along with prominent Mercian commanders in that theater that the damage to Seoul would be enormous. So at exactly what point is a city considered leveled in your mind? 30%, 40%, 50% destroyed, more? Even at 10% complete destruction, emergency services and medical centers would be taxed beyond their limits. Could Best Korea achieve this? Yes and which in doing so, have shut down the city for all intensive purposes. The goal of attacking Seoul would be to spread fear and panic and slow transportation and destroy communications. This I think they could easily do even with their antiquated weapons. My cited sources lead one to that assessment.

    2. I never said the Not completely bad Korea would idly stand by and watch the destruction of their nation. You said this. War happens in real time and is not turn based. All I am saying, is realistically it takes time to mount a counterstrike. The counterstrike would be launched AFTER the initial barrage from Best Korea. To this date, no one has effectively made an anti-artillery weapon. If it is something as little as five minutes is needed to mobilize a coordinated counterstrike -- which is reasonable, even the abysmal mobile Best Korea arty units could get off a second shot.

    3. Again while Not completely bad Korea has the upper hand in air superiority, the old army saying is "air superiority is having your army standing on your enemy's airstrip." The Merican forces in Not completely bad Korea is for a guarantee that Merica will get involved if there is an attack. The entirety of the US forces there are outnumbered just over 2 to 1 by the Spec Ops forces of Best Korea alone. Which one would surmise controlling forward airstrips would be one of their goals besides spreading panic through guerilla type attacks. Best Korea soldiers are not the Iraqi Republican guard. They are dedicated and proved to be capable.

    4. The Korean war is mentioned because realistically there is little that has changed in the situation. The topography is the same. They types of armys facing each other is similar. The ratio of attackers to defenders is similar. Not completely bad Korea is still split in three places by two mountain ranges that run parallel with the peninsula. The eastern one completely isolates the eastern coast and protects the center from a flanking attack from that side. Further south, it is similar situation in the west. The center is hilly and near mountainous and basically tank killing country. A large infantry is what is typically used in this situation. Where ever mechanized units cannot reasonably go, light infantry is expected to hold.
     
  20. uberfukken

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